2vs2vs2vs2 open thread

[Kingreno]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

KR - I like your purist intentions, but in some situations MapStat can save you (literally) hours of time each turn. If there is no spoiler then why not? BTW, I am really confused as to why you would not use tech calc - all it's doing is some sums that before I used to do by hand.

F8 now gives percentages on Domination, a very usefull thing. I am not aware of any other use of mapstat as I simply do not know it. But if you say it shows things like who has what techs that would insta-ban it for me.
As for techcalc, I have never used it in any game and do not miss it. I am maybe just not thorough enough in Civ as I do not do it by hand either, I just make a well educated guess about what my opponent has, or just ask on MSN (that is even easier then techcalc so in some next game I want to test it: Tell your opponent what you just researched!).

[anarres]

Well...

the debate is about *spoiler* info, and my question very clearly stated that if there was no spoiler info - what is the problem?

Your answer is that with spoiler info you won't use it, but that isn't what I asked.

Edit: FWIW I totally agree that using spoiler info is out of the question with regards to utilities, but again, that isn't what I am asking about at all.

[akots]

Just to check up and summarize with MapStat, I opened an old save from finished PBEM.

Info which can be considered spoiler:

1) Territory - city count. Appears that number shown is all cities of your opponent not only that you can see. With spoiler tab unckeched in File-Preferences-Spoiler or without.

2) Trading shows techs, gold, workers and resources available for trade. This is certainly not good.

Otherwise, it is OK. May be though I missed something else.

If Dianthus can fix this, that would be a great help. However, the version 2.8.0 should be banned at least here in this particular game apparently.

[Kingreno]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

Well...

the debate is about *spoiler* info, and my question very clearly stated that if there was no spoiler info - what is the problem?

Your answer is that with spoiler info you won't use it, but that isn't what I asked.

If a player feels he can learn things from a tool that plays with the numbers of the f11-screen (combined with techvalues), that is basicly ok IMO. Hope that (finaly) answers that question. []

[anarres]

akots - I wouldn't use it in any game unless you get permission from the other human players.

KR - I didn't mean to sound confrontational, I am genuinely interested in why you refuse to consider using non-spoiler utils, which can help a lot when playing.

[Lt. Killer M]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

Perhaps I'm sounding a bit too much like a certain ex-gotm moderator for some people here (I apoligize in advance if that's the case )

You don't, not at all.

After all, he was and you are right on the issue, as long as you don't (as he did) call the mod-MAKER a cheater

[Aggie]

I completely understand why mapstat can be a spoiler for PBEM. However, I want to join the discussion and tell you what I like about the tool in SP games:

-During the Sid defiant game (MM1) we had a huge number of cities. With mapstat you can check out the moods of the citizens instantly. You can immediately see which cities are on the point of rioting
-During my 362x362 game with 31 civs (AG3) I could use mapstat to check out what new techs were known by the AI. Going through all the civs every freaking turn was unbearable. With mapstat you see it immediately.
-Mapstat tells you exactly how many tiles are needed to get to domination. Ever since the update of F8 this is less important to me though.

[Stapel]

BTW,

Where is da save????

[Lt. Killer M]

not with me, I sent to KR a while ago.

KR, did you get it? weekendish, I think.

[Stapel]

I have sent it to Alexander last monday. He usually informs if he played it to you, but hasn't done so yet.