Cut the Crap - Pitboss

[akots]

Sorry for all that hassle. Turn played, new turn started.

[socralynnek]

Originally Posted by barbu1977

The American people seek territorial expansion and have decided to declare war on Korea.

As the Americans declared war on an ally of the Carthaginian people despite the warning a few years before, the Carthaginians didn't have any other option than to help their ally and declare war on the American people.

The Carthaginians feel sorry to break a peace deal that way, but the aggressive Americans left no other options.

[Beam]

Reports for duty and joins the party. Declared on barbu and you're lucky I'm respecting the DM and did not capture that worker.

[BCLG100]

Originally Posted by socralynnek

As the Americans declared war on an ally of the Carthaginian people despite the warning a few years before, the Carthaginians didn't have any other option than to help their ally and declare war on the American people.

The Carthaginians feel sorry to break a peace deal that way, but the aggressive Americans left no other options.

From what barbu has told me about this i find your excuse very dishonourable, you've simply decided that a peace treaty is over irregardless of anything else. You had a peace treaty which you've just disregarded, it didn't stipulate (as far as i'm aware) anything such as declaring on akots or whatever would result in war. You just suddenly decide to add this later due to some misguided opinion that barbu is my vassal. Frankly, your actions here will make me ponder any agreement i may make with you in a future game.

[socralynnek]

Originally Posted by BCLG100

From what barbu has told me about this i find your excuse very dishonourable, you've simply decided that a peace treaty is over irregardless of anything else. You had a peace treaty which you've just disregarded, it didn't stipulate (as far as i'm aware) anything such as declaring on akots or whatever would result in war. You just suddenly decide to add this later due to some misguided opinion that barbu is my vassal. Frankly, your actions here will make me ponder any agreement i may make with you in a future game.

Sorry, but I wrote to barbu in the warning, that I had an agreement with akots.

Yeah, I accused barbu of behaving like your vassal. What else should I think anyway? He gives akots a 10 turn warning after you declared on akots while barbu would help you very much winning this game. I can't see how he should gain anything which could make him win the game in this war. barbu assured me he is not a vassal of yours, so I didn't accuse him in public. And I warned him (which makes it at least better in my opinion)

barbu and you declared on akots and I promised to help akots in this case. That is also a deal (I'd never thought that abrbu could come to a conclusion to help you in this game, so I didn't think those two agreements could collide). If barbu had not declared on akots, I wouldn't have declared on him, that's for sure.

What I learned from this game is to add in future times a explicit cause to my peace deals to exclude cases where a weak guy is helping the big guy winning the game.


I don't like breaking deals. It's the first time for me. And it will not be common in future games.

[barbu1977]

Nevertheless the facts are the facts, we had a peace deal up to year 1000AD and after that, a turn 15 war declaration warning. That treaty was broken.


The accusations that you have made of me being vassal could have been valid, but I think I did reply to those completely in a PM. To that PM, I did not get any reply.

Some agreements are just bad, like the one I made with Akots at beginning of the game that allowed him to destroy Ian while I had to sit back. To that agreement, I hold my word. The same way Akots kept his word while BC destroyed Nitro. I'm sorry you signed one of these, but the honourable way would have been to stay true to your word.



On the brighter side, a lot of action is coming up

[mauer]

I wouldn't mind some screenshot updates from people who aren't dead yet *cough* Robi *cough*

[akots]

I'm genuinly sorry about all this misunderstanding. Apparently, ynnek had little choice between breaking one deal or the other and that was a very tough decision. It seems when these agreements have been signed, barbu have assured at leat me, cannot say about anyone else, that the only desire for the American people is to keep the balance between Korea and Mongolia and not to interfere if there is a war between me and BCLG. Thus, I've made some insurance deal as well with Carthaginian empire but it was not some Macchiavellian plot because I had no idea what kind of deal barbu and ynnek have between each other.

So while there were that breaking one of the treaties position, another factor was that the politics declared by barbu were not exactly followed and even though it were not formalized publically or in any treaty I am aware of, this still is a strong factor which could have possibly influenced the circumstances here.

[Robi D]

Originally Posted by mauer

I wouldn't mind some screenshot updates from people who aren't dead yet *cough* Robi *cough*

Since no asked for my opinion here it is.

Yynek got himself in a tangle with the deals he made and got caught up in a position with contradictory deals.

Now in my very very humble opinion i would rank a deal to stay at peace over one to go to war but thats just my opinion.

I guess the main thing is that there is a lesson to be learned in this, if you have a defensive arrangement with someone make sure its part of any other peace you make

[socralynnek]

Originally Posted by barbu1977

Nevertheless the facts are the facts, we had a peace deal up to year 1000AD and after that, a turn 15 war declaration warning. That treaty was broken.

That's why I stated it in my earlier post. I really feel sorry about breaking that peace deal. I have long thought about it, whether I can or even should do it. It hurts me. Really.

Originally Posted by barbu1977

The accusations that you have made of me being vassal could have been valid, but I think I did reply to those completely in a PM. To that PM, I did not get any reply.

Your reply was fine. That's why I didn't bring up the vassal story in this thread (I only replied to BCLG). Still, you were acting like a vassal, intended or not. BCLG is by far strongest and you are helping him. At least that's how I am perceiving the situation.

Originally Posted by barbu1977

Some agreements are just bad, like the one I made with Akots at beginning of the game that allowed him to destroy Ian while I had to sit back. To that agreement, I hold my word. The same way Akots kept his word while BC destroyed Nitro. I'm sorry you signed one of these, but the honourable way would have been to stay true to your word.

I should have explicitly stated the desire between balance of the great powers when signing the peace deal. That was a precondition to that deal (but as it hasn't been written down, so I have no right to call you breaking that treaty)

This case is different as I can see to the ones you mention. You had no military assistance agreement with Ian nor had akots one with Nitro. I have a military assistance agreement with akots and you declare war on him. That alone might value the assistance agreement higher than the peace deal with you. I might have sit back if not BCLG would run away with the game otherwise with your help.

I mean, it might even make no difference whether I declared on you or not as BCLG probably will still win the game, but you made it a lot easier for him.