Tour de France 2008 - Page 2

Stapel · 15-07-2008, 15:39

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Aggie

Not complicated at all. I am almost 100% sure that EVERY winner since 1960 doped. Maybe maybe Van Impe didn't though... (1976).

Lucien van Impe was recently "declared" the last winner without ever havening been linked to dope.

But I agree. All riders use something! Two moments made me realise this.

-When, in 1998, the whole Festina team confessed (apart from Richard Virenque), it became clear to me when Zuelle confessed. Not Zuelle! But he confessed: "Jah, iek heb oik EPO gebroikt."
-Last year's confessions of Jans Koerts. That was amazing.

Add to that the directr confession of Bjarne Riss and the indirect confessions of Zabel and Ullrich.

Cycling will never ever become clean. It's so simple: anything not on "the list" is legal. The riders' doctors will always find new ways to turn up the limits of human capabilities. One might argue that this is a fair thing, as long as the riders' health is not endangered.

Shabbaman · 15-07-2008, 15:44

If it's not on the list, it's fair

One might argue that the substance should have been on the list in the first place though. I don't feel medically improved performance has a place in sport. Sport is about the human body, not about medicine. The line is very thin though: a sportsman can't use a coughing syrup normal people would use. That's just dumb.

Stapel · 15-07-2008, 16:50

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

If it's not on the list, it's fair

One might argue that the substance should have been on the list in the first place though. I don't feel medically improved performance has a place in sport. Sport is about the human body, not about medicine. The line is very thin though: a sportsman can't use a coughing syrup normal people would use. That's just dumb.

But Cycling IS about medically improved performances! There is no line between "not being medically improved" and a natural human effort. Any person doing 3 or 4 summits needs to recover. How to recover? By eating food that has the right levels of vitamins, minerals and carbonhydrates. But eating a dozen ornages and a pound of spinache everyday sucks, so why not have a totally normal and accepted vitamin pill? There we go. Next level is a pill that equals the amunt of the right minerals of 20 steaks. And so on, and so on. The list of known AND legal additional substances riders use is far far longer tha the list of known and illegal stuff.

In order to prepare (and recover) the human body for immense efforts, an excellent medical preparation is a must.

Shabbaman · 15-07-2008, 17:23

There is a line, yet not in cycling apparently. What you can and cannot take is arbitrary, up to a point (like the coughing syrup I mentioned). You have to eat to live anyway. If you want to eat pills instead of steaks, go ahead. If you need hormones instead of steaks, your body is clearly not up for the task.

Matrix · 15-07-2008, 17:23

Perhaps they should switch it then: you can't take any medication unless it's on the "approved supplements"-list.

Matrix · 17-07-2008, 14:53

Ricco tested positive. This is getting as messy as last year.

Darkness · 17-07-2008, 15:19

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Matrix

Ricco tested positive. This is getting as messy as last year.

Indeed. The entire Saunier Duval team pulled out of the race...

Stapel · 17-07-2008, 16:06

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Matrix

Ricco tested positive. This is getting as messy as last year.

Indeed. The entire Saunier Duval team pulled out of the race...

That's quite a bit more shocking than one individual being caught and kicked out. I'm inclined to say there is more behind. Possibly a team EPO strategy.

socralynnek · 17-07-2008, 16:17

I don't know what to think.

Shall I think: Hey, finally controlling does work!
Or shall I think: Hey, see, hey are all taking doping.

Don't know. I hope they take even more out of the race. I guess there are lot still doping and they finally need to see the risks.

Shabbaman · 17-07-2008, 16:27

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Stapel

That's quite a bit more shocking than one individual being caught and kicked out. I'm inclined to say there is more behind. Possibly a team EPO strategy.

SD is a small team with impressive results. That's suspicious at least, dubious at best... Just look at their performance at the Hautacam. But the team wasn't kicked out, they quit themselves.

15-07-2008, 15:44	#12
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	If it's not on the list, it's fair One might argue that the substance should have been on the list in the first place though. I don't feel medically improved performance has a place in sport. Sport is about the human body, not about medicine. The line is very thin though: a sportsman can't use a coughing syrup normal people would use. That's just dumb. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

15-07-2008, 17:23	#14
Shabbaman Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Costa La Haya Posts: 8,494	There is a line, yet not in cycling apparently. What you can and cannot take is arbitrary, up to a point (like the coughing syrup I mentioned). You have to eat to live anyway. If you want to eat pills instead of steaks, go ahead. If you need hormones instead of steaks, your body is clearly not up for the task. __________________ "Our spam is backed with COMETS!"

15-07-2008, 17:23	#15
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Perhaps they should switch it then: you can't take any medication unless it's on the "approved supplements"-list. __________________

17-07-2008, 14:53	#16
Matrix Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 4,828	Ricco tested positive. This is getting as messy as last year. __________________

17-07-2008, 16:17	#19
socralynnek Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USS Defiant Posts: 3,827	I don't know what to think. Shall I think: Hey, finally controlling does work! Or shall I think: Hey, see, hey are all taking doping. Don't know. I hope they take even more out of the race. I guess there are lot still doping and they finally need to see the risks. __________________ Being without a signature since November 2004.