Dutch elections

[Rik Meleet]

SP 2nd largest party.
Bron: peil.nl


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[ProPain]

The day they manage to become part of our national government is the day I'm seriously gonna look into emigration.

Provided I can afford it after the then inevitable drop in real estate value of course

[Rik Meleet]

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

Provided I can afford it after the then inevitable drop in real estate value of course

You're making it sound like that is a bad thing ...

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet

You're making it sound like that is a bad thing ...

I expect he owns a house, so if he ever sells it he'd like the price to stay as high as it is now (or even higher)...
I, on the other hand, would not object to a drop in real estate value. Eventually I'll probably be wanting to buy a house as well, and then I would of course prefer to pay as little as possible.

[Matrix]

That's the whole problem in the housing 'market' in the Netherlands. House owners have grown used to the idea that in time their house will only increase in value. But the houses are too expensive, because we have a huge shortage in houses; more than ever. I really really hope the current government will do something about that!

[ProPain]

Well slightly more serious than my first post now.

First of all I agree prices of houses are too expensive atm. and a gradual correction would be good. Building more houses, like is done now, should take care of this and shouldnt cause a priceshock.

Personally I dont care very much what direction the price of real estate moves in. I just bought a new house I've planned to live in for a long time. If the price of real estate drops or rises it doesnt mean anything to me, after all my monthly costs are determined by the price I bought it for, not the actual worth (apart from the municipal tax that is)

Radically changing the tax deduction system on mortgages like the SP wants will cause a shock and this won't especially hit the rich people but mostly the people who more recently bought a house. They paid high prices and depend on the tax deduction to pay for that. If deduction is radically decreased this will immediately mean increased cost of living, this will probably force some people to sell their house. Also movement in the market will stagnate even more, after all when costs of housing go up, you probably wont be able to move to a bigger house. Natural correction will be a price drop which even makes the situation of those forced to sell worse.

People, rich or poor, who bought their house 10+ years ago won't notice any of this. They bought their houses at much lower prices and have had 10+ years of prices increases + inflation in their benefit. They won't have as much increased costs as newer buyers (read: young people). Also a price drop wont affect them: as long as they dont move they dont notice it at all (apart for a slightly lower municipal tax) and when they move they only realise less profit.

[Rik Meleet]

From SP.nl

quote:Standpunt :: Hypotheekaftrek

De SP wil de hypotheekaftrek garanderen en maximeren tot € 350.000, tegen een maximale belastingaftrek van 42 procent. Dat betekent dat er voor een huishouden met een inkomen van € 50.000 en een hypotheek van € 300.000 niets verandert. Een huishouden met een inkomen van € 100.000 en een hypotheek van € 500.000 zal maximaal € 350.000 tegen 42 procent mogen aftrekken.

English:

SP wants to guarantee mortgage (tax) deduction and maximise that to 350k, for a maximum taxdeduction %-age of 42. That means that for a household of 50k income and a mortgage of 300k nothing changes. A household with 100k income and a mortgage of 500k the maximum deductable amount (against 42%) is 350k.

Rik: Basically this means that only high priced houses with a large mortgage can't deduct the amount over 350k from their taxes.

An example of a less than 350k house (thus were the mortgage is not effected by this).
http://www.funda.nl/koop/detail_foto...chmode=normaal

[Rik Meleet]

And for a piece of reality:
In 15 to 20 years onward when our parents have died the "supply" of houses overtakes the demand thus prices will go down. Unless they are artificially kept high due to for instance constitutional investors. People who own several houses without anyone living in them for the sole purpose of making money.

[ProPain]

quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet



Basically this means that only high priced houses with a large mortgage can't deduct the amount over 350k from their taxes.

The average house price in NL is € 240.000,- so I wouldn't call 350K+ high priced. Especially in the large cities houses are expensive.

Apart from that it's still a fact this will hurt only relatively recent buyers. So what's fair about this proposed measure is beyond me.

[ProPain]

On the fairness issue.

We have a progressive tax system: you earn more, you pay more. So when you have a tax deduction you'll deduct more, obviously it's a logical consequence of the system. This doesnt mean 'poor people subsidise rich people' which is often suggested, rich people still pay more. (And I don't have a problem with that at all)

Capping deductions for richer people is just another way of increasing the tax pressure. With 52% taxes for everything you earn over 52k€ pressure seems high enough to me.